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Ruud de Soet
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Joined: 11 Apr 2018, 09:42

Fuji standard panorama

27 Sep 2019, 14:50

I have made some nice panorama pictures with my Fuji camera. The camera creates the panorama after may shots and save it as a JPG file.
Is it possible to use these panorama photo's directly in X3 and use the left/right scroll buttons?
I have also PTGUI pro but I don't know how to setup the parameters for processing a single photo for using it as a pano in X3.
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

27 Sep 2019, 21:27

Ruud de Soet wrote:I have made some nice panorama pictures with my Fuji camera. The camera creates the panorama after may shots and save it as a JPG file.
Sounds good, but it's unclear to me what kinda panorama it creates in what format. X3 supports 360/180 panoramas (entire horizon in all directions), which should be in exactly 2:1 aspect or in a cube format. If for example your camera takes "cylindrical" photos (360 degree horizontal, but not vertical), you will have a very long/wide image ... To get that to work in X3 panorama viewer, you would need to use an app to "fill" in the details top/bottom of image so that the image becomes exactly 2:1.

Perhaps you can share an example of the source?
Ruud de Soet wrote:Is it possible to use these panorama photo's directly in X3 and use the left/right scroll buttons?
To use the panorama 3D renderer, see my answer above. If you just want to view the image "flat" with zoom and pan, you can of course use the standard X3 popup mechanism. However, it might have some limitations to original width of the image, and the X3 popup is not optimized to display flat wide panorama's (meaning, it will start in zoom-out mode, displaying the entire photo).
Ruud de Soet wrote:I have also PTGUI pro but I don't know how to setup the parameters for processing a single photo for using it as a pano in X3.
I haven't actually used PTGUI myself, but if I can understand what source file you are trying to create a panorama from, I am sure I can help.
 
Ruud de Soet
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

29 Sep 2019, 13:17

I have shoot these pano's photo's with a Fuji 100F in landscape and portrait format (pano function in camera). The pano files are imported in LR and processed in PS. It would be nice when these pictures can be scrolled from left to right with aan arrow button or automatically in X3. In e.g. Fotomagico or other slideshows programs, I use this function for showing the panorama photos.
For this I need no 360-180 viewer implemented in X3.

The original file size, out of PS is about 6000-6400 x1400-1800
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

29 Sep 2019, 22:56

These are "flat" (non-spherical) high-res panoramas, also referred to as "wide angle photography". These formats can be used with the X3 panorama "flat" view, although that generally requires cutting it up into tiles and levels. Demo:
https://demo.photo.gallery/examples/plu ... onasteries

I guess you would like to see a better mechanism to pan/scroll these single-file images in X3, without using the panorama viewer. The X3 popup already opens them, and allows you to zoom and scroll (similar to clicking the images in this post) ... But I guess you are asking for improved view, where the image is scaled 100% from top to bottom of screen, and one can navigate horizontally (and horizontally only)?

Maybe something like this:
http://terrymun.github.io/paver/demo/index.html

I'm sure there are other plugins also. Do you have any examples of some website you have seen that does this well, as you would like it?
 
Ruud de Soet
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

30 Sep 2019, 08:28

Correct, these are "flat" high-res panoramas. 
I am unable to check if Paver will do what I suggest but an example is:  

https://preview.codecanyon.net/item/360 ... 1569837988

The pano will auto or manual scrolled left-right en can be displayed full screen.

An other example: 
https://www.univie.ac.at/ptox/uploads/p ... index.html#

If Paver can do this, then Paver will be oke :smirk:
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

30 Sep 2019, 22:49

I agree there should be a more optimized solution for non-spherical, wide panorama-like landscape images. Best solution would perhaps be if they still opened in the X3 popup (like other images), but the image is initially scaled up to fill the HEIGHT of the screen, which means the horizontal direction becomes scrollable. We would also need to override left/right key controls to navigate the image instead of navigating to next/previous image.
Yep. You wouldn't want the user to be able to zoom though?
Ruud de Soet wrote:The pano will auto or manual scrolled left-right en can be displayed full screen.
Yes. More or less how I propose above.
Ruud de Soet wrote:An other example: 
https://www.univie.ac.at/ptox/uploads/p ... index.html#
Yep. A bit annoying motion interaction in this one. Also, surely you would want it opened on CLICK so that it takes the entire state (like the X3 popup). I wouldn't really think it a good idea to create an "embedded" version where the panorama is embedded into a small screen area. Surely, for the visitor to have any joy from viewing these panoramas, they should be displayed at full stage size, like in the X3 popup, with inherited zoom-, sharing-, fullscreen buttons and the ability to navigate to "next" and "previous"
Ruud de Soet wrote:If Paver can do this, then Paver will be oke :smirk:
Paver was just an example I found of behavior.

Ok thanks!
 
Ruud de Soet
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

01 Oct 2019, 04:44

Karl, 
your proposal sounds good. If there is a panorama photo between standard photos, and the panorama photo is opened, then the image is initially scaled up to fill the height of the screen. Displaying the image starting left and automatically scrol to the right, no arrow keys are needed and the user can use the arrow keys to move forward/backward to display an other image. An other option can be starting in the middle of the image and the user can scroll manually from left/right and moving to an other image will be "difficult". I prefer the first option, automatically so the user can use the default arrow keys to move to the next (standard) image. Maybe the speed can be set as a parameter! 
I think there is no need for a zoom function and only displaying full screen will be nice. No zoom, sharing- and fullscreen buttons!

What do you think of this?
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

01 Oct 2019, 07:19

Yep, I'll have to give it some thought. To enjoy these kinda panoramas, I think it's necessary to open them in a "popup", and since we already have an X3 popup with similarly required features, it's best to try to build it into the current X3 popup. Really, there are only a few small differences in terms of how the image scales on open, and how it can be navigated.

One could also for example consider a feature where the panorama moves horizontally according to mouse position. This would be a simple clean way to navigate the panorama,  better than adding additional buttons, and one can keep existing popup-behavior like navigating to next/previous image. On touch devices, one would be able to touch-move the panorama. I'm not a fan of automatic motion, as I find it annoying, and most users simply want to view the panorama from their own controls.
 
Ruud de Soet
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

01 Oct 2019, 08:52

When the panorama is opened as a "popup", e.g. after viewing a standard image, how does the user know that the image is a panorama image and can scroll with mouse or a touch-move? It would be nice to have a (slow) automatic motion directly after displaying and the user can "force" this motion by mouse or touch-move (right/left and maybe faster/slower)  
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

01 Oct 2019, 09:51

Ruud de Soet wrote:When the panorama is opened as a "popup", e.g. after viewing a standard image, how does the user know that the image is a panorama image and can scroll with mouse or a touch-move?
Should be pretty obvious, as the image will already be moving relative to the visitors mouse. In this paver example, scroll down to the examples, and move mouse. It would be very hard to avoid seeing that, especially if the panorama will open in full state (popup).

Besides, apart from being annoying, it's complicated to implement an automated motion that can ALSO be moved around at the same time. It's not really a good idea to start to automatically move the image, only to show the visitor that the image can be moved ... They want to pan the panorama at their own speed if they want to view it in detail. Also, since it's not 360 degrees, would it just go back and forth? In addition to being complicated and not very logical, I have not seen this behavior in other popular service either (facebook, flickr, google etc). So, keeping it simple, without auto-motion is definitely a factor.
 
Ruud de Soet
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

01 Oct 2019, 13:27

I agree, keep it simple. 
When you compare Paver with the 2 aforementioned viewers, you notice how stiff (not fluent) Paver scroll. On a desktop you must also always move your mouse to scroll from left to right. And Yes, I think that a user will also scroll backwards.
I think Paver is not the most suitable viewer. Why not a standard plugin like you use it for 360 pano viewer? In this viewer you can set your own preferences with paramaters. Let the X3 developer/photographer decide if he/she will auto- scroll pano's yes or no. 
I wonder if I am the only Photographer who goes on vacation without a 360 degree ball head? All modern camera's and mobiles makes very good panoramas. I think this must be a default function for a photo web gallery solution. 
But.... every panorama viewer is nice to have but one that fits within the very nice X3 design.
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Fuji standard panorama

01 Oct 2019, 22:55

Ruud de Soet wrote:When you compare Paver with the 2 aforementioned viewers, you notice how stiff (not fluent) Paver scroll.
Just for reference, I only mentioned Paver because I had noted it earlier for this kind of panorama scrolling. I'm sure there are other solutions also. Yes Paver is more consistent (stiff) with the actual mouse movement, and in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that ... It moves where the visitor wants to see, with precise movement.

https://www.univie.ac.at/ptox/uploads/p ... index.html
The motion in the above is really annoying. Not only is it jerky, but it's got an annoying elasticity to it making it hard to actually view the parts of the panorama you like. Furthermore, the motion should be INVERTED ... When mouse is on right, it should move left (to show more of what is on the right) like paver does, and all modern services like facebook etc.

https://preview.codecanyon.net/item/360 ... 1569837988
The above only moves when you click the PLAY button. Not only does it move way too fast, but this motion is not proportional with how the visitor would like to view the panorama. When you click the < or > buttons, do you like to view the panorama like that?

Since we are discussing the examples mentioned, out of the three, paver has by far the most comfortable and intuitive way to navigate the panorama.
Ruud de Soet wrote:On a desktop you must also always move your mouse to scroll from left to right. And Yes, I think that a user will also scroll backwards.
Yes, but so what? I got my hand on mouse or scrollbar (on my mac), and it's by far the easiest way to navigate a panorama. I don't want to click and hold down a previous / next button, which will scroll the image at a predefined speed. And of course, with mouse motion, they will be able to scroll BOTH directions (also backwards), so I am not sure what you mean.
Ruud de Soet wrote:I think Paver is not the most suitable viewer.
We won't be using Paver, but out of the three suggestions, that option is the most modern and most well-considered.
Ruud de Soet wrote:Why not a standard plugin like you use it for 360 pano viewer? In this viewer you can set your own preferences with paramaters.
First of all, the auto-rotate is available for 360 degree images that loop. It won't work if your partial-panorama images (which are basically just wide) don't loop. Should it go back and forth then? Second, the panorama viewer is a RENDERER, which renders 3D views from spherical panorama sources. Finally, there is already an option for "flat" images in the panorama viewer, but in this case it will not (cannot) auto-rotate (there is no "rotation"), and it basically requires cutting your images up into multiple tiles. Below is an example of a FLAT panorama in the X3 panorama plugin:
https://demo.photo.gallery/examples/plu ... onasteries

So considering the above, there is only ONE feature left here that can be used: previous / next arrows. Personally, to navigate the image above, I would always drag it with mouse / trackpad / touch. The arrow motion on click is not as accurate in navigating the image to where I want to view it.
Ruud de Soet wrote:I wonder if I am the only Photographer who goes on vacation without a 360 degree ball head? All modern camera's and mobiles makes very good panoramas. I think this must be a default function for a photo web gallery solution. 
I'm sure you are not. However, I think the visitors functional requirements may often be overlooked. If you can find me examples of how this is done better from popular sources (facebook, google, flickr, which are tested in depth) or other pro websites, or modern plugins (that are actually used in modern websites, not like the ones you mentioned) ... Then I will consider any features. Until then, I stand by my previous post, which would offer a balanced, modern way to navigate flat partial cylindrical panoramas (which are not "really" panoramas at all, but ultra-wide images).

Thanks!