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Joseph_balson
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Another another Koken migration

08 Mar 2021, 05:59

I love koken. I really love it. But I had to upgrade my server, and koken is no more working.
I've been looking for a replacement for days. 
I eventually tried X3 and bought it, can't say I love it. It's the one I dislike the less. edit: I actually kind of like it after spending more time with it and seeing the dev reactivity.
I could have tried another one, but they didn't offer a demo or a full refund. Won't even mention the name.

So I managed to rebuild a website with the demo and the forums here were quite helpful.
I understand due to the nature of X3, I have to give up on the extreme versatility of koken's database structure and all that comes with it.
I can also live without the themes, they never really mattered to me.

BUT

I seriously miss the keywords search, and a fully transparent integration with lightroom.

This is the serious issue I have with X3.

I managed to use a plugin to create a folder structure that works with X3. Any change I make in a photo in LR, keywords (not used in X3), caption, title, etc. is supposed to reflect in X3.
But it isn't.
If I understand correctly the problem comes from the page.json file.
When lr updates the website with FTP, if it deletes the page.json file, the changes in the photos are correctly updated, but  then any custom image used in an album page is lost. If I don't delete the page.json, well, the update does absolutely nothing.
It's really SUPER not practical.

Is it even possible to do that?

There are a few more little things that annoy me, but with more understanding of how it works I'm pretty sure it'll be ok.
Last edited by Joseph_balson on 09 Mar 2021, 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Another another Koken migration

09 Mar 2021, 01:15

Hi. Thanks for all the feedback, duly noted. As mentioned in this post earlier today, X3 was created before we even heard of Koken and not specifically as a competitor. While Koken focused on management abilities specifically for pro photograhpers, X3 has always been about the website presentation in terms of features, design, speed/performance and navigating images from a visitors perspective.
Joseph_balson wrote:I understand due to the nature of X3, I have to give up on the extreme versatility of koken's database structure and all that comes with it.
You are probably right, although feedback may help shape what comes from us in terms of releases (major and minor).
Joseph_balson wrote:I can also live without the themes, they never really mattered to me.
Did you try the STYLER though? We didn't want to limit design options with singular themes. Instead, X3 comes with combinations of layout, skin, color and font, essentially offering 1000's of theme combinations.
Joseph_balson wrote:I seriously miss the keywords search, and a fully transparent integration with lightroom.
Heard. This is noted by many that migrated from Koken.
Joseph_balson wrote:I managed to use a plugin to create a folder structure that works with X3. Any change I make in a photo in LR, keywords (not used in X3), caption, title, etc. is supposed to reflect in X3.
But it isn't.
If I understand correctly the problem comes from the page.json file.
When lr updates the website with FTP, if it deletes the page.json file, the changes in the photos are correctly updated, but  then any custom image used in an album page is lost. If I don't delete the page.json, well, the update does absolutely nothing.
It's really SUPER not practical.
The problem here, is that X3 will save image data into page.json when you click "save" in the panel from any page. It saves into page.json and does not care if the image meta data came from the image itself, or from existing page.json data. The reason we store data in page.json, is because image IPTC is not 100% reliable, and we can't rely on "injecting" image meta data into the image when you edit title/description from the panel. After you update an image (from Lightroom), the old data stored in the page.json will take presedence. Certainly not an optimal combination of events for those who are operating like this from Lightroom.

Workaround
Although I can't call this a "solution", the workaround would be to DELETE the images from the panel, BEFORE you udpate them via Lightroom. When you delete the images from the panel, the references to the images in page.json will also get deleted. After updating from Lightroom, updated image meta data would then be used. Yes, you may still have a problem having to re-assign "preview" image (as album cover).

I see a possible solution here that we create a new option "[x] Copy image data to page.json". When disabled, it would ONLY use the data stored in image IPTC, and you would avoid issues when updating the image via FTP/Lightroom.
 
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Joseph_balson
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Re: Another another Koken migration

09 Mar 2021, 05:41

I understand X3 wasn't designed as a competitor to koken. 
But now, people who used koken don't actually have many options. In the end, I suspect X3 is what most of us are gonna use. The free options are really too old, ugly, and in the end don't offer koken flexibility: why bother? the paying options are either based on an infamous blog cms that plain sucks or you can't try them before you buy, that I find a bit suspicious. Or they are outrageously expensive.

X3 is the only option that actually works: it's quite easy to set up and for the vistor it's fast and looks nice.
You should expect more of us. And since when people search for "koken upgrade/replacement" in google, more and more find testimonies of people who migrated to X3, who will in turn add top the list of testimonies. etc.

I honestly couldn't think a gallery with no database could work. I was so wrong. X3 works. If the integration with LR was really transparent, I think it really doesn't need a database. Managing everything in lightroom including folders for galleries or articles is very practical and straigtforward. The downside is in a few case different copies of the same image end on the server in different folders. Not a big deal considering how fast X3 is for the end user and how cheap storage is now. X3 displays pages at least 2 times faster than koken did... that's a big thing.

I'd still miss the keyword seach, or the intricated nested option available in koken with categories and topics accross pjhotos, galleries andd articles.
I'd still miss too the timeline page, last photos uploaded and these kind of things, but did my visitors really use those pages? not that much. I checked analytics logs, and it turns out people used my koken website mostly as they will use X3: reading articles and browsing galleries by topic. 

The styler and options to display pages/folders differently are in the end far enough for me: changed one color, the fonts and folder display. Not much more is needed. It's simple and all the options actually are usable and look nice. unlike many theme that offer one thing you like and many you don't, and end chosing the lesser evil.

The only issue for me is indeed LR integration.
1) I had to buy a plugin from a guy that manages an folder structure that you can export to FTP. I just don't like it: it's really slow, and I'm pretty sure you could do something better that would fit perfectly with X3

2)
I see a possible solution here that we create a new option "[x] Copy image data to page.json". When disabled, it would ONLY use the data stored in image IPTC, and you would avoid issues when updating the image via FTP/Lightroom.
that just sounds GREAT! 

Your workaround I figured it by myself. It would work for people who update a few pictures at a time in the same folder. Actually X3 works perfectly for anyone who updates one or a couple pictures at a time: the upload function workds great, managing metadata in X3 works great. For a few pictures at a time.
I allready put 2K pictures in my X3, 2K more are waiting.
When I modify a keyword, title, or anything in lightroom (let's say adding some details for a specific genus),  it has consequences on many photos: I just can't manage each one individually deleting those pictures in many folders in X3 (since there is no database, the same image can be in different fodlers in X3).
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Another another Koken migration

09 Mar 2021, 22:03

Appreciate the constructive feedback. Indeed many have migrated from Koken, and that may change our perspective for future releases. Although X3 is far from outdated, it's come to a point where X4 is on the horizon, mostly because of browser advancements and everything we have learned.
Joseph_balson wrote:If the integration with LR was really transparent, I think it really doesn't need a database.
Will definitely be considered.
Joseph_balson wrote:I'd still miss the keyword seach, or the intricated nested option available in koken with categories and topics accross pjhotos, galleries andd articles.
Could you explain "nested option"? Assume you speak of methods to display images on different pages via tags or search. "Search", "tags", "keywords", "latest images" all go hand-in-hand as they would be based on the same technical concept. Will be considered.
Joseph_balson wrote:
mjau-mjau wrote:I see a possible solution here that we create a new option "[x] Copy image data to page.json". When disabled, it would ONLY use the data stored in image IPTC, and you would avoid issues when updating the image via FTP/Lightroom.
that just sounds GREAT!
Just to note, when "saving" image captions from the panel, it would overwrite IPTC data in image as that would be the only way to store data for the image if not storing in page.json.
Joseph_balson wrote:When I modify a keyword, title, or anything in lightroom (let's say adding some details for a specific genus),  it has consequences on many photos: I just can't manage each one individually deleting those pictures in many folders in X3 (since there is no database, the same image can be in different fodlers in X3).
I do of course see that this is dysfunctional, but I'm not quite sure what it has to do with database or no-database? The problem in X3, is that page.json takes priority over IPTC, and may contain outdated data when you re-upload images with the same name. I may need to reconsider this.
 
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Joseph_balson
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Re: Another another Koken migration

10 Mar 2021, 03:55

Just to note, when "saving" image captions from the panel, it would overwrite IPTC data in image as that would be the only way to store data for the image if not storing in page.json.
not a problem since all the changes are made in LR, I don't change it in x3.  The edit image caption/titles in X3 could be deactivated altogether.

Or maybe it is possible to have a button to read the iptc in the images and update page.json in many folders recursively?
I do of course see that this is dysfunctional, but I'm not quite sure what it has to do with database or no-database? The problem in X3, is that page.json takes priority over IPTC, and may contain outdated data when you re-upload images with the same name. I may need to reconsider this.
Indeed it has nothing to do with the database. the option to use images IPTC instead of page.json is just the perfect fix for me.
All the other options related to the database, I actually can live without or I'm not in a hurry. 
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Another another Koken migration

11 Mar 2021, 00:47

Joseph_balson wrote:not a problem since all the changes are made in LR, I don't change it in x3.
If you want to prevent image data from being stored in page.json, you can add this fix: Open /panel/x3_settings.php, and locate on line 162:
Code
$save = (phpversion() < 5.4) ? ...
Add a new line above, which will strip the image reference before it gets saved:
Code
foreach ($diff as $key => $val) if(preg_match('/\.jpe?g$/i', $key)) unset($diff[$key]);
So you would have something like this:
Code
foreach ($diff as $key => $val) if(preg_match('/\.jpe?g$/i', $key)) unset($diff[$key]);
$save = (phpversion() < 5.4) ? ...
Joseph_balson wrote:Or maybe it is possible to have a button to read the iptc in the images and update page.json in many folders recursively?
It would not be too complicated to create a script that does this. However, I need to make a proper plan, as this is really just a patch for an existing logical flaw in X3. Looping through ALL images in content to detect differences between IPTC and page.json is an expensive operation, and for some users it would lead to overwriting modified titles/descriptions.
 
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Joseph_balson
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Re: Another another Koken migration

11 Mar 2021, 01:13

great thank you !
Seems to do the job.
 
tbp
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Re: Another another Koken migration

14 Mar 2021, 01:49

I found this thread by accident and am also a former Koken user. I am using a free tool called AirLiveDrive to map my webspace via SFTP to a local drive on my computer. This works very well and way better than using a FTP Lightroom Plugin I tested before.

Karl, your code above reflects .jpeg and .jpg files, right? 

Would it be an option to in include a setting in X3 in order to switch between the standard behavior and the "do not save iptc in page.json" behavior which basically means the above code will be executed?

I will test your code as I do all my metadata changes in LR and never in X3, so this sounds absolutely reasonable.

Thanks for this great input.

Cheers,
Tom
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Another another Koken migration

14 Mar 2021, 03:19

tbp wrote:Karl, your code above reflects .jpeg and .jpg files, right?
Correct. All variations, including uppercase.
tbp wrote:Would it be an option to in include a setting in X3 in order to switch between the standard behavior and the "do not save iptc in page.json" behavior which basically means the above code will be executed?
You mean a global setting or a page-specific setting? Yes, it's definitely possible, and I may add it to next release. However, it's really just a "fix" for a logical "issue" in X3 which I would like to entirely avoid in a major future release.
 
tbp
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Re: Another another Koken migration

14 Mar 2021, 04:03

mjau-mjau wrote:You mean a global setting or a page-specific setting? Yes, it's definitely possible, and I may add it to next release. However, it's really just a "fix" for a logical "issue" in X3 which I would like to entirely avoid in a major future release.
I mean a global setting for all pages. 
By the way: The fix has to be applied after each X3 update, correct?
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Another another Koken migration

14 Mar 2021, 04:28

tbp wrote:By the way: The fix has to be applied after each X3 update, correct?
Yes. But it will likely be an option in next release.
 
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Joseph_balson
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Re: Another another Koken migration

14 Mar 2021, 05:55

tbp wrote:. I am using a free tool called AirLiveDrive to map my webspace via SFTP to a local drive on my computer. This works very well and way better than using a FTP Lightroom Plugin I tested before.
Thank you for the tip! I think we tried the same LR plugin that is painfully slow with FTP transfer. On top of that it doen't allow deletion on the server of the photos that are removed from the collection in LR. It only allows the batch deletion of files that are not in the collection, including the JSON with the options. Not usable for anything else than first uplaod of a photo or updating that photo.

I didn't think of your solution! (And I was allready using SSHFS-win to use parts of my server as remote drives.... duh!)

Anyway, I still use the LR plugin because it allows the creation of folders in a collection, but now it's mapped directly to my server, it's fast, convenient, and definitely better than the former FTP solution.
 
tbp
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Re: Another another Koken migration

14 Mar 2021, 06:38

Joseph_balson wrote:Thank you for the tip! I think we tried the same LR plugin that is painfully slow with FTP transfer. On top of that it doen't allow deletion on the server of the photos that are removed from the collection in LR. It only allows the batch deletion of files that are not in the collection, including the JSON with the options. Not usable for anything else than first uplaod of a photo or updating that photo.

I didn't think of your solution! (And I was allready using SSHFS-win to use parts of my server as remote drives.... duh!)

Anyway, I still use the LR plugin because it allows the creation of folders in a collection, but now it's mapped directly to my server, it's fast, convenient, and definitely better than the former FTP solution.
Yes, deletion on the server side never worked for me. Today I use the awesome plugin "Collection Publisher" (http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodie ... -publisher) made by Jeffrey Friedl in combination with AirLiveDrive. I create collections within the plugin as I need them on my site. The export target is my mapped webspace and all collections (= folders) are created and deleted when exporting/deleting images in Lightroom. For me this is the best and cheapest approach I could find and comparable to the Koken plugin I used in the past.

Best,
Tom
 
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Joseph_balson
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Re: Another another Koken migration

14 Mar 2021, 06:49

that is exactly what I do now with sshfs-win instead of airlive drive, just because I was already using the first one.
Basically that turns X3 in a LR front end. It's definitely the closest to the koken plugin.

I'm now gonna try to figure out how to do a basic mix of the koken "timeline" and "last uploaded photos".

Edit:

So there is a way to somehow have a gallery with sorta the last uploads. LR doesn't allow to create a smart collection with let's say n photos ordered by date desc. But it can create a smart collection of the photos with capture date from the last month , week, day or year amongst other options.