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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

16 Jun 2020, 22:18

AYAPOV wrote: Hi, try this link please: 
I honestly can't see a huge benefit in the above. On desktop screens, all those links you have above and below are already available in the sidebar, even after you scroll and are in the middle of a gallery. It just add "clutter" and makes it more confusing. On mobile devices, you will have to scroll up or down to see the additional menu items, and those links are already available easy to access from the menu which is fixed to screen on scroll. Furthermore, on a narrow mobile screen, how will those links look? They will stack on top of each other, with maybe 1-2 links per line, and it will just look like a clutter of text links.

I agree that 1) It will benefit from the forthcoming previous/next links as pointed out in my last post, 2) It could benefit from a traditional "breadcrumbs" menu (like in your coppermine example). I do not agree on simply cluttering the page with all the links from the same parent category like in your screenshot, which would just look like a mess especially on mobile devices. It's not good user interface.
AYAPOV wrote:Yes, if you remember old school coppermine photo gallery project. I was using it extensively more than 10 years. 
While CPG design itself was (and is) awkward, my clients from 15 years ago do about 7 million views gross with the old engine.
Probably (and i am not very shure) the sucsess was partly due to Category/Gallery/Subgallery idea: https://coppermine-gallery.net/demo/cpg ... hp?album=2
Apart from the basic traditional breadcrumbs links, I don't see anything that makes this easier to navigate. This gallery isn't even mobile friendly. Add +100 images to that page, and at best you are left with "breadcrumbs" at top and bottom of page, which requires scroll. That page doesn't even have an easily accessible menu (like X3) so that I can navigate to another page from anywhere (even after scroll). Struggling to see how this page has any benefits. Just for reference, breadcrumbs on mobile may come out like this stacked on multiple lines:
Code
MyHomePage > Some Cool Gallery >
Another page with a long name >
Some gallery
I read the rest of your post also of course. Really appreciate you taking the time :star: I must conclude that I AGREE on the BREADCRUMBS option, but I can't agree on a fully expanded CATEGORY menu with all links stacked. To me this is pure clutter, especially on mobile. How do you know you are viewing it from the perspective of most modern visitors? This behavior does not exist in modern gallery websites like flickr, google photos etc. If you have specific links (even porn websites, which may have well structured navigation), then please send! (private message works).

PS! I'm wrapping up this update in a few days, and will update your website. You will see the new PREV/NEXT buttons on mobile, and then let's take it from there.
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

16 Jun 2020, 22:38

AYAPOV wrote:PS. This forum is another great example of breadcrubs with "sticky header" at the top (another option to have for gallery breadcrumbs - it consumes some real estate in case of mobile phone screen - inspite of resolution is amasing on the most contemporary devices)
If you check from a mobile device screen, it's actually disabled, because it starts stacking onto multiple lines. Even with the menu stacking vertically on mobile, in X3 we would need to consider that there may be a topbar menu, logo and other elements that must be prioritized. But yes, breadcrumbs would be nice, and on desktop they work well, but on mobile there is some concern.

PS! I looked at your website on mobile, and I can see you have a lot of galleries in depth. You need to consider your website from an average users perspective. For example, the most average user (probably > 90% or even much higher) has no interest whatsoever in browsing through ALL your galleries. They want easy access to view your best photography samples (for example portfolio), and likely credentials (who you are, and maybe what you did magazines awards etc). For this kinda user (like me), there is no chance I want to navigate your entire structure. This is how it should be presented to visitor. For visitors who want to find something specific, that simply requires a smart structure so they can identify their path by clicking from the menu (and then from a page).

For those few users who blatantly want to navigate everything, I think they hardly exist, but I wouldn't find it hard to navigate your gallery. These are not the kind of visitors you need to try to KEEP on your website. You need to keep the visitors (potential clients) on your website who are only there to preview, and that's why you need to lead them in the right direction, and avoid too much clutter. Simply adding more links on a page won't keep visitors on websites, and often, it will derail them. Your website is an archive of galleries or a presentation for new potential clients? You can't successfully have both without some compromise and planning.

For example, let's look at your /corporate/ page. There is no way an average "new" visitor or potential client would want to or need to view all these galleries. There is no way by stacking all the links in the same category at the bottom of page will change that. Looking through these pages, I can see your level of profession :star:, but for an average visitor, it's just unnecessary depth taking away the focus. For example on /magazines/ page, I would much rather just see the magazine covers, without all the text, and without clicking into a sub-gallery. I'm not saying anything is wrong, but just noting by example from a visitors perspective! "Less is more". Your website is very "archive" oriented.
 
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AYAPOV
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

17 Jun 2020, 00:49

I honestly can't see a huge benefit in the above. On desktop screens, all those links you have above and below are already available in the sidebar, even after you scroll and are in the middle of a gallery. It just add "clutter" and makes it more confusing. On mobile devices, you will have to scroll up or down to see the additional menu items, and those links are already available easy to access from the menu which is fixed to screen on scroll. Furthermore, on a narrow mobile screen, how will those links look? They will stack on top of each other, with maybe 1-2 links per line, and it will just look like a clutter of text links.
Ok, I suppose that only one kind of menu presented at thе same time on the page (so user have ability tune that from panel - and its ok depending on device or resolution, or other conditions).

Your website is an archive of galleries or a presentation for new potential clients? You can't successfully have both without some compromise and planning.
Yes, agree on that 100% and still in process of fine tuning the structure. 
 Your website is very "archive" oriented.
Yes, probably I have to make some compromise. The primary use of the website is to present any kind of work client may ask for. Than I'll send them direct link to Portfolio Category or specific gallery link.

Another reason why I waiting for future breadcrums implementation - is another projects which are multi-categories photostock-like nature gallery Open.kz with articles and many region-sorted categories (16 provinces here in Kazakhstan).
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

17 Jun 2020, 02:45

Alrighty  :thumbsup: Thanks for all feedback. I will release next X3 soon with new mobile pagenav. Then let's talk further ...
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

24 Jun 2020, 00:52

@AYAPOV: I updated your website to latest X3.29.1.
photo.gallery/blog/x3-29-image-resizer-and-more/

You will now find "pagenav" buttons at bottom of page on mobile devices (devices without mouse pointer), allowing you to navigate between sibling pages.
 
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AYAPOV
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

06 Jun 2021, 11:57

mjau-mjau wrote: @AYAPOV: I updated your website to latest X3.29.1.
photo.gallery/blog/x3-29-image-resizer-and-more/

You will now find "pagenav" buttons at bottom of page on mobile devices (devices without mouse pointer), allowing you to navigate between sibling pages.
Thanks, good,

do you plan to include breadcrumbs navigation for galleries, the same as this forum Sticky Header (or maybe it is already available through the code?):

Forums > X3 Support > Help > Breadcrumbs menu
(with some chice for divider characters "/", ">", "|" etc)

https://disk.yandex.ru/i/-OP07Hact8Jhag
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

07 Jun 2021, 01:10

Will definitely add breadcrumbs option at some point, although currently it's not available in X3.

We use breadcrumbs like this in our Files App:
https://files.photo.gallery/demo/
 
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AYAPOV
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

07 Jun 2021, 22:05

Thanks Karl! Breadcrumbs menues like those in Files App is exactly what we need to help navigate gallery visitors through large Photo Galleries :thumbsup:
 
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AYAPOV
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

13 Jul 2021, 02:05

mjau-mjau wrote: Will definitely add breadcrumbs option at some point, although currently it's not available in X3.

We use breadcrumbs like this in our Files App:
https://files.photo.gallery/demo/
Hi Karl, do you think some temporary code for Breadcrumbs menu is possible? We awaiting for breadcrumbs feature both for mobile and computer based browsers, as our photogrphy portfolio grows enormously last month (and planning to expand)
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

13 Jul 2021, 02:34

AYAPOV wrote:Hi Karl, do you think some temporary code for Breadcrumbs menu is possible? We awaiting for breadcrumbs feature both for mobile and computer based browsers, as our photogrphy portfolio grows enormously last month (and planning to expand)
Perhaps some Javascript mechanism could be added. However, if not designed, planned and integrated properly, it may cause some undesired effects. For example, how should it work on Mobile? Breadcrumbs would wrap to new lines, and on deep folders, you may end up with several lines of breadcrumbs.
 
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AYAPOV
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

22 Jul 2021, 05:00

I stack with a problem when I share link to one of the albums on LinkedIn or other platforms. The visitor view the 2-nd tier album and than close the webpage and leave forever. Instead - what I need is to drive curiosity and lead visitors to deep into the other topic-related albums as well. I can live with couple lines of breadcrumbs on the top and bottom of every album in the gallery to make my websites more "sticky", lazy-viewer-friendly and organised. From design point of view - probably we have to sacrifice some screen space to give viewer more comfort. Raaare visitor tap the corner to expand the main menu. Users are lazy and very computer-literated these days and want direct access to files and menue structures. We treat gallery not only as a clean portfolio website - but more like file browser - Finder on osx or Explorer on win

They will stack on top of each other, with maybe 1-2 links per line, and it will just look like a clutter of text links.
Exactly - clutter... but its ok - like the keywords "cloud" - tappable/clicable to directly lead viewer to the one of the related category which the album relates.

From breadcrumbs menu and design point of view, remember old good coppermine project (which was good for desktop computers)? Something like this. Now i see that 80% of vewers are mobile. Hope you elegantly implement this feature in one of the next releases )
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

22 Jul 2021, 06:25

Yup, agreed ... my last response was generally to your question "do you think some temporary code for Breadcrumbs menu is possible?". As you understand from our dialog, designing and implementing an elegant, user-friendly, functional breadcrumbs-menu that works nicely across all scenarios (unlimited depth), on all devices (screen sizes and pointer mechanisms), without interfering with existing X3 features, requries a lot of careful design planning. So, a temporary solution? Perhaps, but not taking all the scenarios above into consideration.
 
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AYAPOV
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

25 Jul 2021, 02:15

mjau-mjau wrote:<...> So, a temporary solution? Perhaps, but not taking all the scenarios above into consideration.
I welcome such a temporary solution as a beta version of 2-3 levels of nesting are enough, use my gallery as a test platform ;)
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

25 Jul 2021, 04:10

OK. So what I will do is create basic traditional breadcrumbs:
Home › subfolder › subsubfolder

There are some variations of this. For example ignore the "home" folder or display a home icon, and/or ignore the current page last breadcrumb (since user is already on that page). Anything to make it as compact as possible:
[H[ > subfolder >
CURRENT PAGE TITLE


To be honest, it will probably work nicely as long as you have realistic folder name lengths and depths. The reason I need to do it "properly" at some point, is because I need to take into consideration worst case scenarios with very deep nesting and extremely long folder names, and how it collapses on mobile devices, and of course it needs to be properly integrated into the X3 code, because it could crash with other elements (pagenav, intro etc).

Gimme a couple of days, and I will come up with a temporary Javascript solution.
 
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AYAPOV
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Re: Breadcrumbs menu

26 Jul 2021, 05:14

mjau-mjau wrote: To be honest, it will probably work nicely as long as you have realistic folder name lengths and depths. The reason I need to do it "properly" at some point, is because I need to take into consideration worst case scenarios with very deep nesting and extremely long folder names, and how it collapses on mobile devices, and of course it needs to be properly integrated into the X3 code, because it could crash with other elements (pagenav, intro etc).

Gimme a couple of days, and I will come up with a temporary Javascript solution.
Thank you and welcome any temp solution!

For the future real releases, according to albums name lenghts, some thoughts. What if let user some entry field to give short names for breadcrumb purposes (Which may differ from original name, like Gallery name and Title name for the browsers top bar) plus set number of characters, above which original name will truncate to reasonable lenght