I'm getting some strange behavior on WHEN the 'Page Nav' works. If a folder contains sub folders, the 'Page Nav' doesn't work (no Nav buttons). I would expect to be able to 'Page Nav' between any to folder that share the same root folder.
Hypothetical Example:
[1.index] -> [1.Photos] -> [1.Mammals] -> [1.Dogs] -> [1.Domestic]
[1.index] -> [1.Photos] -> [1.Mammals] -> [1.Dogs] -> [2.Wild]
[1.index] -> [1.Photos] -> [1.Mammals] -> [2.Cats] -> [1.Domestic]
[1.index] -> [1.Photos] -> [1.Mammals] -> [2.Cats] -> [2.Wild]
[1.index] -> [1.Photos] -> [1.Mammals] -> [3.Deer]
[1.index] -> [1.Photos] -> [1.Birds] -> [1.Hawks]
[1.index] -> [2.Contact]
I can ONLY navigate between folders that DO NOT contain a sub folder
Results in this type of Nav system
Photos has no Nav
Contacts can Nav back to Photos
No Nav between Mammals and Birds
No Nav between Dogs and Cats, but I can Nav from Deer back to Cats
I can Nav between Dogs -> Domestic and Dogs -> Wild
I can Nav between Cats -> Domestic and Cats-> Wild
I would expect to be able to 'Page Nav' between
Photos and Contact
Mammals and Birds
Dogs and Cats and Deer
Dogs -> Domestic and Dogs -> Wild
Cats -> Domestic and Cats-> Wild
HELP!!
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X3 Photo Gallery Support Forums
Page Nav5 posts
Re: Page Nav
That is a correct observation, allow me to explain. First of all, the page nav was a bonus-navigation feature, not initially planned, that we decided to keep, with a semi-automatic setup. Page nav between sibling pages is not something visitors expect, and is not normally a feature in most websites.sprocket wrote:I'm getting some strange behavior on WHEN the 'Page Nav' works. If a folder contains sub folders, the 'Page Nav' doesn't work (no Nav buttons). I would expect to be able to 'Page Nav' between any to folder that share the same root folder.
Why would a visitor use next/previous to navigate between pages in the first place? This is similar to image-gallery behavior, when visitors navigate between sibling images. Likewise, page-nav is intuitively helpful for example when navigating related sibling gallery pages inside a category. It does not make much sense however, to be able to navigate between unrelated pages, or category pages. For example, why would I use arrows to navigate between a page "portfolio" and "about"? It is not intuitive, and not a natural thing to do from a visitors perspective, especially when the menu is available.
Therefore, although not perfect, the page-nav is only available on pages that do NOT have child pages.
Re: Page Nav
I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with your logic on this one. What people expect is CONSISTENCY. I bring this whole thing up, because
people on my site are complaining about why sometimes they can navigate easily and other times not.
1.) Their attentions spans are small. They browse pages of thumbnails to find something that grabs their attention. Using the Nav button makes this quick and easy. They are not expecting to have some pages navigable and others not.
2.) People are often searching through pages to find something quickly (the right thumbnail possibly to follow to another level).
Here's a different example (folder structure shown below).
Let's go with the basic blog concept. They click on blog and two folders appear, 2015 & 2016. They choose
2015 because they think that's what they want, but quickly glancing the child folder previews they realize it isn't what they wanted. If there was a nav button, they would quickly click over to 2016 and be there. But they can't do that. They have to go to the main menu 'blog' button and come back down again, even though 2015 and 2016 are certainly related (being the years the blog was written), there is no nav button between them. Let's say they browse to 2016, the months January, March and June appear. They click January and can then easily see the two posts on the 12th and 25th. they can tell by the previews, that they have already read these posts. It would be nice if they could just hit a nav button and go to February, but they can't. They go back to the main menu and choose February. They haven't read these blogs yet, so they click the 7th. They read it and navigate to the next day using the na button, nice and easy. They read the post for the 17th, but now there's nowhere to go from here because of the child folder. They may not even realize there is a blog post for the 25th. They got here by a quick click of a nav button, so no more buttons no more pages? right? no. If they do know the day exists, it's back to the main menu hover blog -> 2016 -> February - > 25. So while all the visitor wants to do is quickly navigate from one day to the next, they can't. How does this navigation system make sense?
Hypothetical folder system:
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [1.January] -> [1.12]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [1.January] -> [2.25]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [3.February] -> [1.07]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [3.February] -> [2.17] -> [1.Other]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [3.February] -> [3.25]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [2.March]
... and so on
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [1.January] -> [1.16]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [1.January] -> [2.23]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [2.February] -> [1.05]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [3.March] -> [1.25]
... and so on
Another example from your website (flamepix), what I personally WOULD desire to do is when I choose 'examples' from the main menu, I would LOVE to be able to quickly nav from one example page to the next example page, instead of constantly going back to the main menu. Those are all related by the fact that they are different types of examples (Gallery, Variations, Folder, Features, Plugins), but you say because they have children they are unrelated.
Thanks
people on my site are complaining about why sometimes they can navigate easily and other times not.
People navigate between pages for two very important reasons.mjau-mjau wrote:Why would a visitor use next/previous to navigate between pages in the first place? This is similar to image-
gallery behavior, when visitors navigate between sibling images.
1.) Their attentions spans are small. They browse pages of thumbnails to find something that grabs their attention. Using the Nav button makes this quick and easy. They are not expecting to have some pages navigable and others not.
2.) People are often searching through pages to find something quickly (the right thumbnail possibly to follow to another level).
Here's a different example (folder structure shown below).
Let's go with the basic blog concept. They click on blog and two folders appear, 2015 & 2016. They choose
2015 because they think that's what they want, but quickly glancing the child folder previews they realize it isn't what they wanted. If there was a nav button, they would quickly click over to 2016 and be there. But they can't do that. They have to go to the main menu 'blog' button and come back down again, even though 2015 and 2016 are certainly related (being the years the blog was written), there is no nav button between them. Let's say they browse to 2016, the months January, March and June appear. They click January and can then easily see the two posts on the 12th and 25th. they can tell by the previews, that they have already read these posts. It would be nice if they could just hit a nav button and go to February, but they can't. They go back to the main menu and choose February. They haven't read these blogs yet, so they click the 7th. They read it and navigate to the next day using the na button, nice and easy. They read the post for the 17th, but now there's nowhere to go from here because of the child folder. They may not even realize there is a blog post for the 25th. They got here by a quick click of a nav button, so no more buttons no more pages? right? no. If they do know the day exists, it's back to the main menu hover blog -> 2016 -> February - > 25. So while all the visitor wants to do is quickly navigate from one day to the next, they can't. How does this navigation system make sense?
Hypothetical folder system:
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [1.January] -> [1.12]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [1.January] -> [2.25]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [3.February] -> [1.07]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [3.February] -> [2.17] -> [1.Other]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [3.February] -> [3.25]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2016] -> [2.March]
... and so on
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [1.January] -> [1.16]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [1.January] -> [2.23]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [2.February] -> [1.05]
[1.index] -> [1.Blog] -> [1.2015] -> [3.March] -> [1.25]
... and so on
That's just it, sibling pages ARE ALWAYS related wether they have children or not. Definition of sibling:each of two or more children or offspring having one or both parents in common. They are related to their parent. Most of the time, that parent page sits in the main menu (but not always).mjau-mjau wrote:Likewise, page-nav is intuitively helpful for example when navigating related sibling gallery pages inside a category.
It does not make much sense however, to be able to navigate between unrelated pages, or category pages.
Another example from your website (flamepix), what I personally WOULD desire to do is when I choose 'examples' from the main menu, I would LOVE to be able to quickly nav from one example page to the next example page, instead of constantly going back to the main menu. Those are all related by the fact that they are different types of examples (Gallery, Variations, Folder, Features, Plugins), but you say because they have children they are unrelated.
I fully agree that navigation between the main menu items is not necessary and could be eliminated. This is a level that may not be related. Although if you look at your very own website, I can navigate from 'contact' to 'examples'. As you say, "Why would I want to do that"?mjau-mjau wrote:For example, why would I use arrows to navigate between a page "portfolio" and "about"? It is not intuitive, and not a natural thing to do from a visitors perspective, especially when the menu is available.
I love the navigation buttons. they're quick and easy and make moving from page to page a breeze. Having them show up based on whether they contain a child folder has me baffled. All this is of course my own opinion. If you told me that navigation amongst parent folders containing child folders was very difficult to implement from a design standpoint, I'd understand. But your defending logic confuses me. Just because my sister has two children and I have none, doesn't make her and I any less related to me.mjau-mjau wrote:Therefore, although not perfect, the page-nav is only available on pages that do NOT have child pages.
Thanks
Re: Page Nav
I'll look into additional settings for page-nav for next major release ... Sure!
I generally agree with what you are saying, although I don't entirely agree with how/where the pagenav should be available. For us, it is incredibly important to minimize distracting interface elements where not needed. Especially since this is duplicate navigation elements (already easily accessible in menu), that visitors aren't used to, that is not standard on other websites, that often overlaps content, especially on mobile. For pages where a "next" button does not make sense (which is many types of pages), then why display it in the first place? Just because a page has a sibling, doesn't mean the sibling is remotely related ... Our best approximation is that if the page does not have children, it is usually displaying the end-branch content, and its siblings are normally related. Personally, I don't want users to navigate between unrelated pages, or pages that list other pages ... They are not "targets" for the visitor. Surely with the mega menu, any visitor has a much better overview over where they would like to navigate instead of clicking a "next" button hoping it will take them where they want?
I guess just to round this up: You will see similar behavior on other websites with this kind of navigation. For example blog pages will often have links to NEXT and PREVIOUS blog posts, because they are linear items in the same category. You won't see the same buttons to be able to navigate between blog categories though ... This does not make sense to you?
Anyway, I get your point
and don't disagree ... Just wanted to include my defense closing statement. Appreciate you taking the time for extensive answers, and it's good that we have people who appreciate these buttons. It will be easy to include settings that allow you to keep these buttons global, automatic or disabled.
I generally agree with what you are saying, although I don't entirely agree with how/where the pagenav should be available. For us, it is incredibly important to minimize distracting interface elements where not needed. Especially since this is duplicate navigation elements (already easily accessible in menu), that visitors aren't used to, that is not standard on other websites, that often overlaps content, especially on mobile. For pages where a "next" button does not make sense (which is many types of pages), then why display it in the first place? Just because a page has a sibling, doesn't mean the sibling is remotely related ... Our best approximation is that if the page does not have children, it is usually displaying the end-branch content, and its siblings are normally related. Personally, I don't want users to navigate between unrelated pages, or pages that list other pages ... They are not "targets" for the visitor. Surely with the mega menu, any visitor has a much better overview over where they would like to navigate instead of clicking a "next" button hoping it will take them where they want?
I'm not gonna disagree, but I don't see how it helps to find something quickly. People click any available buttons when they are asked to do user testing ... If they are there looking for something, they would normally use the menu. The fact that less than 0.1% of websites have this kind of navigation should testify to this.People navigate between pages for two very important reasons.
1.) Their attentions spans are small. They browse pages of thumbnails to find something that grabs their attention. Using the Nav button makes this quick and easy. They are not expecting to have some pages navigable and others not.
2.) People are often searching through pages to find something quickly (the right thumbnail possibly to follow to another level).
I guess just to round this up: You will see similar behavior on other websites with this kind of navigation. For example blog pages will often have links to NEXT and PREVIOUS blog posts, because they are linear items in the same category. You won't see the same buttons to be able to navigate between blog categories though ... This does not make sense to you?
Anyway, I get your point
and don't disagree ... Just wanted to include my defense closing statement. Appreciate you taking the time for extensive answers, and it's good that we have people who appreciate these buttons. It will be easy to include settings that allow you to keep these buttons global, automatic or disabled.Re: Page Nav
Thank you. I appreciate that you weigh in the thoughts and desires of your clients. It creates a more robust product that fits the needs of all who are (or will) use it.
Sorry for slow response, I was out of town.
Sorry for slow response, I was out of town.