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trpgforum
Experienced
Posts: 86
Joined: 05 Jul 2019, 03:40

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 02:05

Hello Karl

The new card feature is great! I have now tested them for a long time in a hidden area of my website. Friends with very different PC skills (none to great) also worked with it as a test. I haven't put it into production yet because I'm missing two small important points that would probably be very easy to implement:

1. Photographers are aesthetes. The image is always in the foreground. Unfortunately, the images are now "defaced" by check boxes when I move the mouse over them. Even more annoying are the fixed checkboxes on mobile websites. In addition, there is a risk that visitors will accidentally click on it. Well understood: you have designed the whole thing in an exemplary manner and many users probably want exactly that; e.g. when selling is the main purpose of the website. But very many professional photographers only want to show the highly annoying box once the user has activated the selection mode! It would be wonderful if I could optionally choose between the standard implemented today and the variant "Show check box only in selection mode".

2. As soon as I click on the shopping cart at the bottom right, the shopping cart appears in the two-page view. Unfortunately, the same title text (above) and "Order" button text (below) appear on both pages, although technically it's a two-step process. This unsettles many users. In the opinion of some of my volunteer testers, these texts should be able to be labeled differently on both sides, e.g. 

1. page:
  • Title above: Your choice
  • Command button below: Proceed to order
 
2. page:
  • Title above: Order
  • Command button below: Submit order
Please excuse this long text. But it shows how important these details and the new function are to me. For me there are no wishes left unfulfilled afterwards. The feature is absolutely great - and if these details were viable, I would enable the feature across my entire site immediately!

Thank you again for your great work, creativity and sense of quality!

Best greetings from Switzerland
Thomas Ruf
THOMAS RUF PHOTOGRAPHY
Landscape - Nature - Macro
4132 Muttenz
Switzerland
www.thomas-ruf.ch
 
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mjau-mjau
X3 Wizard
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Posts: 13481
Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 03:37

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 03:03

trpgforum wrote:1. Photographers are aesthetes. The image is always in the foreground. Unfortunately, the images are now "defaced" by check boxes when I move the mouse over them. Even more annoying are the fixed checkboxes on mobile websites. In addition, there is a risk that visitors will accidentally click on it. Well understood: you have designed the whole thing in an exemplary manner and many users probably want exactly that; e.g. when selling is the main purpose of the website. But very many professional photographers only want to show the highly annoying box once the user has activated the selection mode! It would be wonderful if I could optionally choose between the standard implemented today and the variant "Show check box only in selection mode".
This can be resolved with some custom CSS. Let me know ...

From a design perspective, we can't create a cart system where checkboxes are not very obvious, because it needs to be easy and clear how to add them to cart. You may of course use a CSS fix to only show check boxes in "selection mode", but this means the cart will not work until that mode is selected, and the user will have to click this button to be able to use the cart.
trpgforum wrote:2. As soon as I click on the shopping cart at the bottom right, the shopping cart appears in the two-page view. Unfortunately, the same title text (above) and "Order" button text (below) appear on both pages, although technically it's a two-step process. This unsettles many users. In the opinion of some of my volunteer testers, these texts should be able to be labeled differently on both sides, e.g. 
I'm not actually sure what you are referring to here, but you can already change all texts yourself.
https://cart.photo.gallery/interface-texts/

If you want to change the text in the order form, that is in the cart plugin order form settings.
 
trpgforum
Experienced
Posts: 86
Joined: 05 Jul 2019, 03:40

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 03:26

Hello Karl

Thank you very much for your incredibly fast reaction and reply!

Regarding point 1

It is already clear to me that in many cases it is important for the checkbox to be constantly visible on all pages where the shop is of central importance. But on the photography side, this constant visibility of the checkbox is really very distracting and it really enhances the aesthetics of the gallery. That's why I gladly accept the disadvantage of having to click on the selection mode first and without complaining ;-). And I'm convinced that many professionals see it that way too. If that actually works globally with a CSS hack and doesn't have to be done on every page, that might actually be enough. I am very grateful for your support here!

On point 2

In my opinion, I can configure all texts, but unfortunately not separately for the first and second page of the shopping cart! And that's exactly what I need. Did I miss something there? Or is there a hack?

Thank you in advance!
Best regards


Thomas Ruf
THOMAS RUF PHOTOGRAPHY
Landscape - Nature - Macro
4132 Muttenz
Switzerland
www.thomas-ruf.ch
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 03:39

trpgforum wrote:but unfortunately not separately for the first and second page of the shopping cart
Can you explain what you mean by first and second page? There is title at top, button at bottom. When you click button, it shows the order form. All texts can be modified, but there are no "pages".
 
trpgforum
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Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 06:44

Hello Karl
When you go to the shopping card, you see your selection. I mean this as „first page“ . Here you cklick on the button „Order“ And now you can see the part in there you can fill the form (=„second page“) . And now you have to click again on the button „Order“!
THOMAS RUF PHOTOGRAPHY
Landscape - Nature - Macro
4132 Muttenz
Switzerland
www.thomas-ruf.ch
 
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mjau-mjau
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Joined: 30 Sep 2006, 03:37

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 10:30

trpgforum wrote:When you go to the shopping card, you see your selection. I mean this as „first page“ . Here you cklick on the button „Order“ And now you can see the part in there you can fill  the form (=„second page“) . And now you have to click again on the button „Order“!
Yes. That's a single button of course, and it does not change or anything ... It just brings up the order form if (and only if) order form is enabled, and only if the order form is not already filled ... It does not change what the order-button does, because you are still ordering. Even if there is a case to change wording, it's quite obvious that visitor needs to fill the form once it shows, and then the order button even gets highlighted.

What are you going to change the texts to? "Show order form" or "Fill details"? Seems clumsy.

Let me know if the above is correct, and I can help you solve it with CSS, alongside the other fix you asked for earlier.
 
trpgforum
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Joined: 05 Jul 2019, 03:40

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 11:30

Hello Karl

1) For once, I don't quite agree with you ;-). In my opinion, it is a two-stage process as in other web shops: First, the web visitor checks the shopping cart. Only then does he go to the checkout. So the button should say e.g "Go to checkout" and then e.g. "Send order" below the completed form. Granted, it might seem petty. But this would make less experienced users feel much safer and better off!

2) I would be very grateful for a CSS hack to make the checkboxes invisible everywhere (also too when hovering over them) as long as the selection mode is not activated!

Have a nice weekend and best regards
Thomas
THOMAS RUF PHOTOGRAPHY
Landscape - Nature - Macro
4132 Muttenz
Switzerland
www.thomas-ruf.ch
 
metallissimus
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Joined: 17 Oct 2019, 06:54

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 11:45

trpgforum wrote: So the button should say e.g "Go to checkout" and then e.g. "Send order" below the completed form. Granted, it might seem petty. But this would make less experienced users feel much safer and better off!
I second that (since I don't use the cart to actually sell stuff, I didn't notice the issue before). German jurisdiction tends to be pretty picky about wording, so this might actually be a legal issue in Germany. I know there are guidelines how buttons must be named to be on the safe side legally.
www.danielbollinger.de – corporate photography
hochzeiten.danielbollinger.de – wedding photography
 
Ch3ck3rM0n
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 Aug 2022, 07:56

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

19 Aug 2022, 11:48

Hi all, I am sorry but I have the problem that i can not find Breadcrumbs in the settings. Do i searching wrong?

Image
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

20 Aug 2022, 00:11

We can agree to disagree. The CSS to change words depending on STATE of the order form is easy. The default text for the button (when the form is not visible) is the one you have now, as explained at cart.photo.gallery/interface-texts/. To change the text when the form is visible, add this to Settings > Custom > Custom CSS:
Code
.x3-cart-show-order-form {
  --x3-cart-text-order: 'Bestellen';
}
trpgforum wrote:it is a two-stage process as in other web shops: First, the web visitor checks the shopping cart.
Is it? Normally, there is 1. CART button and 2. CHECKOUT. In X3, there is 1. CART button and 2. ORDER, named "ORDER" by default, because it's definitely not a "checkout"-process. If you rename it to CHECKOUT, it would be the same as other web shops, but "checkout" implies next state requires a payment.

Besides, normally the "Checkout" process in other carts are on one single page, but not in X3 because it doesn't accept payments and it doesn't need an entire page. It just shows the form prior to ordering, as it is a required step in the order process (if order form enabled) ... You might as well have the cart and the order form on the same page, and one single button "Order" (or "Checkout"), but this does not mean it's multiple steps. The form is just hidden to make room for cart selection in X3 prior to ordering.

I could have made the order form always visible above the order button, in which case it would only have one state. I'm sure you agree though, that it makes sense from UI perspective to hide the form until the user actually wants to proceed. Really, it's not multiple states, it's just that we show the order form as a step when user wants to order.
trpgforum wrote:So the button should say e.g "Go to checkout" and then e.g. "Send order" below the completed form.
"Checkout" is specifically for making payments. It definitely does not give the user any idea that it means "Fill your contact details before ordering". If I am on a page where I have been told to select images, I definitely don't want to click "Checkout", because that insinuates a payment (or something I don't know). "Order" on the other hand is exactly what I want to do, send these selected photos to the owner ... When clicked, a form shows up, and of course I will understand that my details are required, but this does not mean that the button below should change text, as I'm definitely NOT checking out ... I just want to order.

Any English website owner would definitely agree.
trpgforum wrote:But this would make less experienced users feel much safer and better off!
How would it make them feel safer? By writing "Checkout", it means you are paying for something, but I am definitely not gonna pay. Besides, how can it feel unsafe or unintuitive to click "order" after selecting image that you want to order? It's pretty clear when the order form shows up what has to be done and why.
metallissimus wrote:I second that (since I don't use the cart to actually sell stuff, I didn't notice the issue before).
Uhm, but changing "Order" to "Checkout" implies that you are selling something. How on earth does changing text to "Checkout" seem less like you are selling something?
metallissimus wrote:German jurisdiction tends to be pretty picky about wording, so this might actually be a legal issue in Germany. I know there are guidelines how buttons must be named to be on the safe side legally.
I didn't personally make the German translation here, but English "Order" definitely does NOT convey any meaning that something needs to get paid for. "Checkout" does ...

So you are saying that you may get sued in Germany if someone mistakingly clicks to order something, AND DOES NOT PAY ANYTHING, and no such thing was ever implied in the text, yet they feel like they have been duped somehow? And changing the word to "Checkout", which definitely implies payment (which it definitely is NOT), solves this? Either that would objectively be a very stupid rule, or it's not true.

Even if this rule existed in English-speaking countries, I would like to see some logical debate why "Order" would be misleading while "Checkout" is not.

Anyway, pointless debates, we can agree to disagree. See the fix above!
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

20 Aug 2022, 00:22

Ch3ck3rM0n wrote: Hi all, I am sorry but I have the problem that i can not find Breadcrumbs in the settings. Do i searching wrong?
Strange. Could you give me login to your control panel so I can diagnose? I can't explain it from just seeing the screenshot.
 
metallissimus
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Joined: 17 Oct 2019, 06:54

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

22 Aug 2022, 03:30

Just to maybe clear up some of your confusion:
mjau-mjau wrote: I didn't personally make the German translation here, but English "Order" definitely does NOT convey any meaning that something needs to get paid for. "Checkout" does ...
That's really interesting, I wasn't aware of that! German "bestellen" does indeed imply there are costs involved. You usually wouldn't say "bestellen" if you order something that's free.
So you are saying that you may get sued in Germany if someone mistakingly clicks to order something, AND DOES NOT PAY ANYTHING, and no such thing was ever implied in the text, yet they feel like they have been duped somehow?
The idea of the regulation is (as far as I understand it) transparency, so that customers in online shops can be absolutely sure at what moment they are liable for any costs. When you have a multi-stage checkout process ("checkout" seems to be a typical German misuse of an English word here if I understand you correctly), sometimes it can be confusing which button actually triggers the buying process. So you have to explicitly name the buttons in a way there is no confusion possible.
www.danielbollinger.de – corporate photography
hochzeiten.danielbollinger.de – wedding photography
 
trpgforum
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Joined: 05 Jul 2019, 03:40

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

22 Aug 2022, 05:37

A clarification on my part too. Obviously we didn't always discuss the same thing. In my opinion, using terms such as order etc. is not expedient. The context is too different depending on the language. In addition, it's not always about shops, but also about inquiries, downloads, etc., which can also be realized with Karl's ingenious concept.

My point is that it must be possible to label the button differently depending on the type of shop or whatever. Because first I see and check the image selection and then click on the button (= completion of step 1) to the form, which I now fill out and send if everything is correct (= completion of step 2 and end of the process)!

For 1 and 2 I would like to be able to change the text! At least here in the German-speaking area, that would be incredibly helpful!
THOMAS RUF PHOTOGRAPHY
Landscape - Nature - Macro
4132 Muttenz
Switzerland
www.thomas-ruf.ch
 
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mjau-mjau
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Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

22 Aug 2022, 06:33

trpgforum wrote:For 1 and 2 I would like to be able to change the text! At least here in the German-speaking area, that would be incredibly helpful!
Did you try the custom CSS in my previous post?

Glad to have your feedbacks. The cart could just as well have looked like this in static format:
[cart title]
[items]
[order form]

In X3's case, for minimal distractions and optimized space, we only show the actual order form input fields once the visitor wishes to proceed (which they clearly do). This does not imply any difference in the action taken. Even if the input fields were always visible, the user would still be unable to proceed without filling the input fields. And clearly, if we made the input fields always visible, there would only be one button "Order". It might be different in German, so feel free to change it.
 
trpgforum
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Joined: 05 Jul 2019, 03:40

Re: X3.31.0 Cart, Breadcrumbs and Files :lion_face:

22 Aug 2022, 07:44

Hello Karl

I'm sorry. Now I have tested the CSS-following hack, But it doesn't work :-(
Code
.x3-cart-show-order-form {
  --x3-cart-text-order: 'Bestellen';
}
Best regards
Thomas
THOMAS RUF PHOTOGRAPHY
Landscape - Nature - Macro
4132 Muttenz
Switzerland
www.thomas-ruf.ch